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| | Wednesday, August 16 Outside the Lines: Facing the future | |||||
| Outside the Lines - Facing the Future, How Teams and Individuals
Address the Passing of Teammates.
Announcer - August 6, 2000
Mark Schwarz, host - Every time the Charlotte Hornets leave
practice, they pass the spot where Bobby Phils was killed in a car crash.
Each lap NASCAR drivers take around New Hampshire International Speedway,
they must negotiate the very turn around which Adam Petty and Kenny Irwin
each lost their lives.
Now, the Kansas City Chiefs have returned to a locker room void of
the uplifting banter from the team's biggest personality, Derrick Thomas.
The Oakland Raiders camp is a more somber setting also in the absence of
Eric Turner.
When Irwin died in New Hampshire, qualifying continued within an
hour after the track was cleared. Phils died on a Wednesday. Two days
after that, the Hornets were on the floor battling the Knicks without him.
Is that appropriate? That's debatable, but it is harsh reality. As
Charlotte coach Paul Silas put it, "The players can rally around each
other or else we can disintegrate."
Athletes have performed reMarkably in the face of crushing
tragedy. A year ago, the Houston Comets claimed their third consecutive
WNBA championship days after point guard Kim Perrot succumbed to cancer.
We'll speak with Perrot's coach later in this program.
But first, Shelley Smith and her report on how the Chiefs and
Raiders are coping without Derrick Thomas and Eric Turner.
Shelley Smith, ESPN correspondent (voice-over) - Derrick Thomas
was a raging force with the Kansas City Chiefs for 11 seasons. The
nine-time pro-bowler was the cornerstone of the team. When training camp
began this season, the Chiefs were reminded almost immediately that he was
gone.
Donnie Edwards, Chiefs linebacker - On the airplane, you know,
we'd see Derrick coming in, you know, making a little noise, let you know
that he's coming.
Gunther Cunnningham, Chiefs head coach - He would always come to me
and say, "I look better than you do today." And this year, when we went
to camp and I got on that airplane, it hit me like a ton of bricks - This
is it, this is the end.
Smith - For the Oakland Raiders, who lost defensive back Eric
Turner to cancer in May, the reminders were more subtle.
Charles Woodson, Raiders cornerback - You know, you'd see someone
who may have the same type build as Eric, and it's kind of like, that's
Eric, you know what I'm saying? You got to get back to reality and
realize that he's not around anymore.
Darrell Russell, Raiders defensive tackle - When certain things go
down, when certain things occur, when we're in a meeting and someone says
certain things, you wait for that reply that he would make or you wait for
something that he would do.
Smith - Losing a teammate, especially a close teammate, is as
traumatic to many as losing a relative. For some, it is even more so
because of the dynamic of what they do.
Eric Allen, Raiders cornerback - Our occupation is a little
different from 99 percent of the rest of the world because although he's,
you know, another guy at the workplace, we spend nine hours a day with
each other for seven months, you know. And it's like -- it's almost
closer than family sometimes.
Russell - It's almost, like, you know, you have this brick wall.
And to lose a brick is a really big thing. And the better the brick, most
likely it's going to be somewhere in the middle. And, you know, he was
one of our more valuable bricks. So, you know, you have a hole somewhere
in the middle of the wall and that's big.
Ken Manges, Psychologist/Trauma Specialist - There is a void,
there's a vacuum for them. So they have a problem in being able to
readjust emotionally to the absence of the person.
Some instances, the athlete will experience a reverie or
daydreaming about how that person was there with them. And they may be
emotionally caught up in that reverie, in that thinking about them.
Charles Peterson, Chiefs president - Some of the players didn't
want to face it initially. Donnie Edwards didn't want to, period, and
didn't want to accept it.
Smith - Edwards wasn't alone in his heavy sorry over losing
Thomas, the team's emotional leader.
Elvis Grbac, Chiefs quarterback - We went out there for the first time to stretch as a team. It was very, very quiet; there wasn't a guy
saying a single word out there. And usually, the first day, you're
excited to be out there and getting ready for the season, and getting
going, but it was dead silent out there.
Smith - Chiefs coach Gunther Cunnningham was close to Thomas as
well and was struggling with his own feelings. Cunnningham had to balance
his pain with that of his players.
Cunnningham - I had a friend who's in psychiatry who I asked, you
know, "These are my feelings. How do you convey that to the team and how
do you control the team?" And he says, "Hey, share your feelings with
those guys. And they see a 54-year-old guy shedding tears and they need
to see that." It was really tough. I think it really tested me probably
to my limits to handle the football team.
Daver Szott, Chiefs guard - Gunther had to be the strong guy
throughout the whole thing and he shared about how there was times, you
know, it got too much for him. And he had to, you know, release some of
the emotions he had.
Smith - Pro Bowl quarterback James Hasty had his own way of
coping.
James Hasty, Chiefs cornerback - The only way I could really deal
with it was just crying, you know. All I did was cry pretty much for the
most part.
Smith - For him, getting back on the field and being physical was
cathartic.
Hasty - I think that's got to help, because there'll be times when
I might take an extra shot at a receiver or -- and you know, again, it's
something -- I'm just getting it all out. You know, I'm getting it off my
shoulders and I'm moving on. But the bottom line is I'm not going to
forget, you know, and I'm going to play. Every time I take a step out on
that field, I'm going to play with that focus in mind, that basically, I'm
playing for my guy.
Smith - Cunnningham urged his team to embrace that concept, to
think about Thomas when they stepped on the field.
Edwards - For a second, I stopped to think, you know, I hear
Derrick in my head, "Come on, amigo. Come on, amigo." He's always
around, like his spirit is still alive around the team and it really makes
me smile sometimes.
Smith (on-camera) - Does it help?
Edward - Yeah, yeah, it does. You know, instead of like thinking
about, you know, that we lost him, just think about like how Derrick was
and how funny he was, and you know, little things that he'd do, like, it
just makes you laugh.
Smith (voice-over) - The Raiders like the Chiefs are still coming
to grips with their loss, remembering Turner in different ways.
Woodson - I really don't try to talk about it too much, you know.
I kind of -- you know, you might not notice it -- people may not notice it
but I kind of take it kind of hard. But when the conversation comes up,
you know, about Eric, I just kind of, you know, say his name and then
just, you know, just kind of try to go into another conversation. I try
not to dwell on it.
Russell - If we're on the sidelines and during practice, it was a
drill where two people would grab the ball with one hand and see who could
snatch it out of the other person's hand, and that was an ongoing battle
between Eric Turner, Eric Allen, Charles Woodson and myself. And, you
know, other players participated in and out, but it came down more or less
to ET, EA and Wood and myself.
Smith (on-camera) - Have you guys done it yet, this training camp?
Russell - No, not once.
Smith - Do you think you will?
Russell - I don't know.
Smith (voice-over) - Chiefs management recognizes that Thomas'
loss goes beyond the game.
Peterson - It will be difficult when we don't announce number 58
but we'll get through it.
Smith (on-camera) - Both teams know that grieving is a process,
that such profound pain cannot be easily dismissed or forgotten. The
initial feelings of shock and despair may have passed, but there will be a
lot of tough times ahead.
For OUTSIDE THE LINES, I'm Shelley Smith.
Schwarz - In a moment, we discuss how athletes work through death
with a NASCAR driver, an athletic counselor and a coach who has steered a
team through the loss of its floor leader.
Schwarz - Welcome back to OUTSIDE THE LINES. Our topic - Facing
the future, how teams and individuals cope with the passing of teammates.
And joining us from Charlotte, North Carolina, Winston Cup driver
Geoffrey Bodine, voted one of NASCAR's 50 greatest drivers; from Chicago,
Dana London, director of a nonprofit group that helps athlete focus on
their profession while navigating the chAllenges of personal and family
issues; and from Sacramento, California, Van Chancellor, three-time WNBA
Coach of the Year, who has led the Houston Comets to three consecutive
WNBA championships.
And while we are so glad to have all three of you with us this
morning, we are particularly glad to have Geoffrey Bodine with us because
of something you experienced in February, Geoffrey, at Daytona during a
truck event. And if we could, with no further delay, let us take a look
at a near-death experience for Geoffrey Bodine on the track this February.
Announcer - Look out, we got trouble. This is going to hurt.
Oh-oh, oh my. Oh my. Keep your fingers crossed.
Schwarz - And Geoffrey, as close as you came to not being here,
how disturbing was that? And do you think about how close that call was?
Geoffrey Bodine, Winston Cup driver - I really do. Yeah, that was
an unsurvivable accident but I did survive it. And it's through the grace
of God; he saved me that day, and you know, I understand that. And
watching that video -- and I actually have the remains of what you saw
there that was on the racetrack in my shop. And, you know, I go in there
and look at that and, yeah, it bothers me knowing that I came so close to
dying. But it also makes me feel really good knowing that I was saved and
I did survive that accident and, you know, that God did bless me that day.
So it's kind of a two-fold thing. Yeah, it's terrible, it's kind of scary
to watch again, but I'm here, I did survive it.
And, you know, I was blessed in many ways. I mean, I can still
drive a race car. I just came back from Indy yesterday and, you know, so
it's really amazing that I did survive and it's amazing that I'm able to
drive race cars again.
Schwarz - Geoffrey, does NASCAR handle this issue sensitively
enough? We pointed out earlier that Adam Petty and Kenny Irwin died in
practice laps, and within an hour, they were back on the track. Is that
appropriate?
Bodine - Well, you know, we all have our opinions but I really
think it is. You know, it's hard. I'm not going to tell you it's easy to
go out there. And in auto racing, you know, we can see skid Marks, we can
see Marks in the wall where the car made an impact. So we're constantly
reminded of what happened. And it's very hard to go back on the
racetrack. And like a lot of them, we had to go out there and qualify and
get ready for a race. And every time I went in to turn three, you know, I
was reminded that Kenny lost his life right there.
You know, but I think it's appropriate because that way, we can
honor whoever we lost, we can show our respect. The race fans can do that
by coming to the track, and the drivers, we all talk about it, we remember
the person. So I don't think it's a bad thing that we -- the show
continues. It's always been that way in auto racing and other types of
sporting events. And I think it's the right thing to do. It gives us all
time to get together and remember that person and grieve. And, you know,
the winner, whoever it might be, gets in victory lane, dedicates the race
to that person. I mean, a lot of the really good things that occur, even
though it's really only a day or hours after their death, it still is a
good, positive time for everyone.
Schwarz - Geoffrey, you're involved in an individual sport. Let's
talk to Van Chancellor, who is involved in a team sport, the WNBA.
Coach, you lost Kim Perrot, your point guard. She battled cancer
for six months before finally succumbing. But even though she battled it,
was that enough time for your team to adjust and prepare for the shock and
pain of the news?
Van Chancellor, WNBA Houston Comets coach - It was not. It was
just very tough. When you keep, when you have cancer and you're sick,
you're thinking that persons going to get well. Well, she never did. And
when she passed away, that was the toughest four or five hours I've ever
had to deal with the team. We were in a hotel in Los Angeles, California.
Schwarz - That's right. And you had to play a game 24 hours after
you got news of her death. Was that right? Should the WNBA have said,
"You don't have to do this. You don't even have to make this trip"?
Chancellor - Well, let me tell you, that's the toughest call we've
ever had, I think, as a coach. The WNBA talked to us and we had an
opportunity to either play or to cancel. But her family wanted us to play
in her memory, and we decided because it had playoff implications, we
didn't want to sit around in a motel room and mope. We played the game
the next day and it was the hardest time getting them on the floor. As I
look back, is it right or wrong? I can't answer that.
Schwarz - Dana London, you have worked extensively with both
individual and team sports athletes. What is unique to athletes as far as
the way they are forced to confront the death of a co-worker?
Dana London, Professional Athlete Counselor - Well, I think that
the main thing that we have to address is that the death of a teammate,
it's not a sports issue -- it's a human issue. And as long as we are not
expecting these teammates -- male and female -- to go out and not be
affected I think that sometimes we put -- we do a tribute before the start
of a game or a black band or numbers on a shoe and expect that the players
cannot -- can just go on and act like nothing else happened. I think that
we just have to have the compassion and get a little bit beyond the actual
sport.
Schwarz - We're going to take a short break. We will return with
our guests, Geoffrey Bodine, Dana London and Van Chancellor, as OUTSIDE
THE LINES continues right after this.
Schwarz - And we're back with former Daytona 500 winner Geoffrey
Bodine, Dana London and Houston Comets coach Van Chancellor.
Eight years ago, a football player by the name of Jerome Brown
died in a car accident. He was a Philadelphia Eagle. His teammate on
that team, Mike Golic, now works for ESPN. Mike told us that it was very
awkward in some ways that the Eagles tried to use Jerome Brown's death as
a rallying point throughout the season. They set up his locker both at
home and on the road. Here's Mike Golic.
Mike Golic, ESPN Correspondent - Very superficially, you could
tell, you know, this happened, let's use this. You know, let's go off
this emotion. But I almost sit there and think about it sometimes and I
think to myself, god, I'm using the death of a friend of mine to pump me
up for a game. You know, sometimes that seems almost, you know, nonreal,
you know, like, I can't do this, you know, that's not right.
Schwarz - Dana London, people do have various reactions to the
death of a loved one or a teammate. What is the right way for a team to
conduct business after the death of a prominent member of its community?
London - I think that we have to do it at least respectfully, you
know. I think that we kind of expect the athletes to, just as was stated
in the piece, just kind of remove themselves, rally around and act as
though nothing happened. And I don't think that that's really feasible.
When things happen in our school system, a kid brings a gun to school, we
have -- the grief counselors converge upon the school and they address
each and every kid, and if you have nightmares about it, if you have
thoughts about it.
And so I think that we need to at least have -- remove ourselves
from the schedule. I mean, these players are expected to grieve on
schedule and it's just not feasible. And so if a guy is having a bad day,
we have to at least let him a bad day. Most of us take off if we're
grieving. These guys don't have that flexibility. So I think that a
little bit more of an approach, a personal approach has to be taken.
Schwarz - And Van, I think you, having been through that Kim
Perrot know as well as anybody what the dynamic is with a team. Cynthia
Cooper was Kim Perrot's best friend and also your best player. We can
look at something Cynthia Cooper wrote in the month of May. And she said
that she had a difficult time. It took her a month and a half after the
season ended to realize that she was in trouble because she had taught
herself not to grieve or mourn the deaths of Kim or of her mother, and it
wasn't until January that she started a full-fledged healing process.
What she learned is she had to not try to put things behind her but just
in the proper perspective. You were her coach, you were also a mentor of
sorts. Which one did you pay more attention to - the player or the person?
Chancellor - I don't think there's any doubt -- as I listened to
this show, I thought the comments in our whole organization, we put our
players first as human beings. We never even thought about whether we won
or loss. All we were concerned about was how they were reacting to this
death, how they felt. We came together as human beings. Some people say
we came together and won because of Kim. We came together because of our
love and respect for her and for each other. And that's what -- we got
through this thing because of our love for each other as human beings not
necessarily as basketball players.
Schwarz - What advice would you give to coaches Gunther Cunnningham
of the Chiefs or Jon Gruden of the Raiders as they deal with the deaths
this fall of Derrick Thomas and Eric Turner?
London - I don't have any doubt. I think you had to show your
emotions, how you felt about the player, how you felt about that
situation. I think as a coach, you had to be a human being first, because
I cried. Every time that this thing came up, yes, I did cry about it.
But let me say this. I love Kim Perrot. I loved her family. And I think
that these coaches, they have to address this issue. They have to admit
it. You go to practice and there's nothing wrong with saying, "Hey, I
miss Kim today," because you really do. I still miss Kim.
London - But coach, I think you have to acknowledge the fact, even
on a minor level, that women and men deal with grief differently.
Chancellor- No question in my mind about that.
London - And so I think that society holds men so accountable to
be in complete control of every emotion, that it's a lot more difficult
for them to express those feelings. I mean, you know, Cynthia Cooper is
an extraordinary athlete and probably even a more extraordinary person.
So, I mean, the fact that she was able to function and even coming back
another year, I think that's testimony of how extraordinary she really is.
But a lot of these guys, you know, society is not going to let them cry.
Schwarz - Let me ask you, Danny, you were at Malik Sealy's funeral
in the month of May. Kevin Garnett idolized Malik Sealy as a child; now
he was a teammate. The Timberwolves are concerned about how Kevin will
deal with his death. What have they done to address those concerns?
London - Well, I can't speak on behalf of the Timberwolves but I
can say that Kevin is another extraordinary athlete and another
extraordinary person. And I think that he is surrounded by some people
that care enough about him to allow him to address it. You know, and I've
extended myself to Kevin to offer that consoling ear for him as well
but...
Schwarz - Should the Wolves be concerned about his reaction?
London - I think that the Wolves need to be concerned because
Malik was a great guy. And I think that his loss will be felt but it will
also be felt in the other teams that Malik played for. I mean, one of the
reasons, in addition to paying my respects to the family, one of the
reasons why I went was because there are so many other players that played
with him that were there at the service that I wanted to offer my support
to.
Schwarz - Geoffrey Bodine, is death a topic of conversation among
NASCAR drivers, particularly in light of the two deaths this year?
Bodine - Well, you know, naturally, we all know that can occur in
this business. We've seen several of our friends lose their lives in auto
racing. And, you know, we're still grieving Adam's death, we're still
grieving Kenny's death and we do remember. We have numbers we put under
-- the side of our cars to -- in memorial of these two fellows. We have a
motor racing outreach, MRO, as a church service for us, a counseling
service that goes around to all our races. They're actually worldwide,
are in many forms of motor racing, and they work off of donations so --
and race drivers, the racing community, race fans all do support that
service.
Schwarz - Geoffrey, we're going to have to end it there. I want
to thank you and I want to thank Van Chancellorand Dana London all for
joining us this morning on OUTSIDE THE LINES. We'll return after this
short commercial break.
Schwarz - OTL is online at ESPN.com. Type in the keyword, OTL
Weekly, at our site. You can e-mail us, review our library of transcripts
and prior shows and even watching streaming video of previous programs.
Our address again - otlweekly@espn.com.
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